Curse

Plommon · Jul 25, 2005, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galatea

Many of us know that the current trading system we have in-game has lots of room for improvement. The auction house is a suggestion that has been covered quite a bit (see for yourself). Some simply suggest a need for it, others go into more depth.

First off, I want to thank ArenaNet for taking the time to read through Fansite Forums and taking our suggestions to heart. The addition of the Rune Traders in the most recent patch definitely shows that you guys listen to us. I hope that the current trader system is only a temporary fix, and that an Auction House will be implemented in the future. Right now, it is extremely difficult to trade/sell efficiently. Let's face it: the major trade spot of the game is Lion's Arch, District 1. District 2 and District 3 are often filled with trade spam as well, especially when District 1 is so full no one can enter. Ascalon City appears to be a big trade city as well, although if you really want something, someone in Lion's Arch almost definitely will have it.

However, even so, it is so difficult to find what you are looking for. Your "WTB" or "WTS" messages get lost between the 99347823748732 million other WTS/WTB messages being spammed over and over. Even harder to do is to guess the current going price. Upon asking, "How much does xxxx go for?", I can receive anything from no answers at all, or people trying to sell to me at obviously outrageous prices. There are also people who are willing to pay 500 gold for a rune, while others will tell you, "No way, that goes for no more than 100 gold." Also, the current system requires players to stay online for n amount of time in order to sell or buy, whether sucessful or not.

So without further ado, here is my detailed proposal for a trade system involving an auction house, with eye candy included:

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THE MAIN TRADE SOURCE: The Auction House

The Auction House should consist of anywhere between 3 and 5 NPCs, who will stand in/at an allocated Auction House building. There should be five Auction House buildings, each one located in the main cities (gold dots on the map): Ascalon, Lion's Arch, Henge of Denravi, Amnoon Oasis, and Droknar's Forge.

Auction Houses aren't really required in the mission cities or in the small towns, but that's really up to the devs/community if it deems necessary.

Districts should not affect the stock or prices of these auction houses. Players should only be able to sell n amount of items at a time, and each item should only stay on auction for a certain duration of time (if at the end of this time, the item is not sold, then the player can re-auction it, or take it back). Players do not need to be online to keep their items in the auction house. There is anonymity in that buyers do not know who the seller is.

Now, there are two options, each with their own pros/cons (which others are free to address, if not yet already mentioned):
a) One Single Institution
Under this option, the stock of the five auction houses is shared. This means that a player in Ascalon City can bid on the same items available to a player in Amnoon Oasis. This also means that if I place an item on sale in Lion's Arch, then anyone can buy it from any of the other auction houses.

Some pros:
- items are available across Tyria
- prices remain stable across Tyria
Some cons:
- overstock of items
- demand might not meet supply

b) Individual Institutions
Under this second option, each auction house will stand as its own. This means items on sale in Lion's Arch are only available in Lion's Arch.

Some pros:
- incentives to visit all of the five major cities
- items generally won't be overstocked
Some cons:
- players may decide to sell items like superior runes only in droknar's forge auction houses, making it nearly impossible to attain one until after ascension
- player may need 200 of a crafting material and might have to travel to 2+ auction houses to meet his demand

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The Structure of the Auction House

Two tabs - one for buying, one for selling.

Selling
Under the selling tab, player will select an item from their inventory and enter in a price. They can check the current prices by going into the BUY tab and selecting am "Auction Log" button for a certain item, which can show the past 10 winning bids on the item. Let's say a player wants to sell a Minor Rune of Vigor, and he sees that the past 10 winning bids were 250 gold. The player then will have an idea of how much to place theirs for sale.

Player A places his rune on sale for 250 gold.
If Player B places the same rune on sale for 200 gold, then player B's rune will sell more quickly, because his had a lower reserve price.
Player C decides to be greedy and places his on sale for 500 gold. His most likely will never sell, or will sell once the supply runs out and demand is still high.

Certain items should be stackable and stacks should be listed separately for bidding. Currently, we have stacks of 10, but perhaps introduce stacks of 50 for those that need a lot to craft armor.
Example:
- Bolt of Silk
- 10 Bolts of Silk
- 50 Bolts of Silk

Generally, buying in bulk will cost less than buying a single silk.

After an item is sold..
Since we currently don't have a delivery system, the seller can go to the Auctioneer to pick up his earnings.

Buying
Here's some eye-candy:

*I noticed I made a typo, and also forgot to include an "Auction Log" button as I mention below, but.. pretend those little mistakes aren't there, because I don't feel like making a new image. 0_x

Under the buying tab, players should have the ability to toggle on/off various categories (Weapons, Dyes, Runes, Salvage Items, Unidentified Items, Miscellaneous, etc...).

Listed underneath these categories should be the items, which players can choose to be organized in any fashion - by class, alphabetically, by rarity, etc..

The number in stock should show up next to the the item's name.

Player will select the item he/she wants. I forgot to include this in my image (^_^), but there should also be a button that says "Auction Log", so that players can see the 10 past winning bids on the item, and have an idea of what the going price is.

If player decides to purchase the item, he will then enter in the amount he'd like to purchase, and then select a BID button. Player will then enter in an amount he wants to bid. If he bids too low, he can continue increasing the amount of gold until he wins the item.

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THE TRADERS:
I don't feel that traders need to be removed. I feel that certain items, such as dye and runes, should still be available for purchase from a trader/merchant NPC, as well as drops from monsters. However, I feel that the Auction House will help regulate prices, allowing buyers the option to see what others buy/sell for, and avoid new players from getting scammed.

Prices will always continue to fluctuate. On one day, black dye might cost 5 platinum at the trader, and only 3K in the auction house. However, the trader might be buying them for 4K. The next day, it might be cheaper to just buy/sell at the Auction House, without the trader's assistance.

=====

Meh, there is of course, lots of room for development with this idea. I'd like to see what others think, and see what suggestions they too, have to offer. I have already written this out once, but somehow lost everything I wrote, so what you have just read is a re-written version, with some details missing because they've slipped my mind. ;_;

It'd be nice too, if we could have one official Auction House/Trade Center thread, so that the devs won't have to jump from thread to thread to see all the suggestions being made.

Consider it /signed :q

hahman14 · Jul 25, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

bump, this is too important

Disciple · Jul 25, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnylange

are you going to apply for a job at ArenaNet or NCSoft?

Fixed.

Damon Windwalker · Jul 25, 2005, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Suggestions (not sure if it has been covered):

1. All trades should be controlled by an in-game escrow.
a. Items put up for trade should be removed from the player's inventory, or locked to prevent salvage/trade/sale once the item has been put up for bid.
b. Bids placed should also be put in escrow to ensure that the money is actually there when the auction completes.

2. All item descriptions should be controlled by the game, showing the item's exact in-game description, stats, and requirements - to prevent any chances or/complaints about scamming

3. Once an auction duration is set, it is locked in. The item will remain at auction until time expires - at which point it will go to the highest bidder, or be returned to the seller. No pulling the auction because the price isn't high enough for your liking.
a. Set the minimum price for an item as the minimum price you will accept. If you don't set a minimum price, and I have the winning bid on that Gold Axe of Axewhuppin' at 1 gp - that's your bad for not setting up the auction correctly.
b. Include an optional "buy now" function to allow for an instant buyout at a desired price above the minimum bid - if the seller so chooses.

Galatea · Jul 25, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Definitely -- when a seller places an item on auction, the item should leave the player's inventory and is stored in the server's auction house for x amount of days, or until the item is sold. Once a player bids an amount that meets the asking price of the seller (let's say a stack of woodplanks is placed on sale for 49 gold, and a buyer bids 50 gold to purchase the them), then the item is automatically added to the inventory of the buyer, and the money is removed from his inventory and placed into the auction house - then available for pick-up by the original seller.

Items placed on auction can no longer be salvaged/traded/sold through player-to-player transactions, unless the seller removes it from the Auction House, and therefore cancelling the auction house sale.

And definitely, all item descriptions should show, so everyone knows what they're bidding on and a general idea of how much these things are worth.

---------

As for this 'minimum' price setup, this is how I have the Auction House configured in my head.

Seller has a Shadow Shield. It is max-defense, but it is common (white colored), and there's nothing special about it except that it's a Shadow Shield. He wants to sell it, because he has no use for it. He visits the Auctioneer and sees that other people have bought it for 1 platinum. Desperate to get rid of it, he places it on sale for 600 gold. There are two others on sale, but he has no idea what their reserve price is (but to give you guys an idea, these two have placed them up for exactly 1 platinum, because that's the going price in this hypothetical auction).

Here comes a buyer. "Ooh, a plain Shadow Shield! And there are 3 in stock!" If he bids 1 platinum exact (the price shown for previously won items), then the original seller (600) will have his sold because his had the lowest reserve price. This also means that if a buyer had bid exactly 600 gold, he would've won the auction. If someone tried to bid 500 gold, none of these items would be sold.

the bloodthirst · Jul 27, 2005, 05:01 AM // 05:01

this is a very good idea. Nice job with the demonstration. im sure that anet would have already implemented this if this game was pay to play. But, something like this would likely take some money. hopefully we will see something like this in the expansion.

/signed

Galatea · Jul 29, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38

It's nice to know that aNet agrees.

http://www.gwnor.moo.no/fansite_friday_53.htm

Quote:

Fansite Friday #53
Square Pusher: “Why don't you have an Auction House? Or at least some kind of bazaar option? I find it hard to sell any of my stuff to other players. The only thing I can do is scream in the chat function what I'm selling and hope people see it. (This also creates spam for players that actually want to chat). I know there's already a trade chat function, but it's not good enough...”

You are correct – it’s not good enough. We need to implement more in support of player sales and trades. It’s on the to-do list, and we intend to investigate a lot of options in this area. We’re very aware that one of the things that keeps a game world lively, and that gives a game longevity, is the social opportunities offered by the game. And naturally, trading, selling, being the “village entrepreneur” or the “item speculator” would be part of that social setting.

Implementing an auction house, a bazaar or a other more-sophisticated means of trade is going to do a lot for Guild Wars. It will allow all of us to interact more meaningfully. If we want to trade, we’ll have a good way to do it. If we want to hang out in town and chat, we can do it without being interrupted by trade chatter, and without interrupting the reasonable business efforts of traders. And if we want to form a party, we can do so smoothly and easily. Right now we’re sort of “bumping into” one another – chatters and traders and party formers all mixing in a combination that can be exciting but is a little hectic, too!

The team is definitely going to find better means of making interaction more comfortable. I cannot give you a timeline on the implementation of an improved system, but I can say that such improvements are a definite objective for the not-too-distant future!

Bwsk8 · Jul 30, 2005, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Theank for posting that I have never seen that before. ^^^

Mavrik · Jul 30, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

I hope they come up with this soon, I got stuff to sell!

Charrbane · Jul 30, 2005, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavrik

I hope they come up with this soon, I got stuff to sell!

Yeah same here and I don't like spam selling items by yellin WTS and whatever in the chat dealie. id rather be out killing stuff.

skull · Aug 01, 2005, 12:15 PM // 12:15

I think this is a great idea.

I, like many others here participating in this discussion, have tons of junk (albeit computer generated) that my build cannnot use. I just hang on to it hoping to sell at some time in the future.

Specific problems I have currently have with the Trading system include:

1) not knowing what a suitable asking price is for some items e.g. some Major runes (always 25g at Rune Trader) and Purple and Gold Weapons.

2) wasting time trying to peddle these items (or even finding a buyer) takes up an insane amout of online game time. Out of frustration, I have either salvaged or sold Gold and Purple Weapons for next to nothing, just to free up space in my storage.

3) I'm a terrible typist. While trying to sell these items I have to write a description about what I'm selling for each item. And then have to frequently change it when trying to sell something else. It would be nice if I could just put the item up for auction and let the in-game description say it all.

-------------------------------------------------------

Some things I'd like to clear up about any new Trading System:

1) I would hope this system does include at least one NPC in every location, as is currently done. Whilst questing I do find myself needing to dump off a lot of white items. If all Trading in the new model will be done on a island or only in a few specific locations, it would cause trouble to people questing in a group. i.e. the group has to break up when teleporting to the Trading locations.

2) For the Trading UI (user interface), maybe it would be a good idea to have the items be color coded as they are now. i.e. Purple Items have purple descriptions in the Auction / Trading House.

3) Customized items need to be easily identified (if they are even allowed to be placed for up for sale). You might be able to salvage an upgrade from them but I would hate to accidently buy a customized weapon because I didn't read the fine print.

That's all,

skull

Kazahana · Aug 01, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by skull

3) Customized items need to be easily identified. You might be able to salvage an upgrade from them but I would hate to accidently buy a customized weapon because I didn't read the fine print.

just make customized unsellable if you want to get a profit from it just salvage it and sell the upgrade sounds agreeable to me but theres prolly someone out there who disagrees with me and will whine loud enough about it

theVariable · Aug 03, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

/signed

Krank · Aug 04, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

/signed, by the family

Myth Osis · Aug 04, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

/Signed

Deinonychus · Aug 04, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

/signed

Great work here. Here's a slightly different trade option that I came up with while chatting to a friend. use it as a supplement, or for further thought.

Take your work here as written, now I thought of my idea under the impression that escrow might be impossible to do correctly, so the problem would remain that if person A won an auction from person B, then A is out of luck if B is not around to trade with him. If he's on a mission or offline then no item for player A.

So here's what I was thinking: If we made the entering of items as easy as possible, then we could theoretically have trade be a "now only" setup. Bottom line is: you have to stay in town while selling, but it's fast and easy to do so. Bear with me...

If the 'system' cannot hold your axe of fortitude to hand to the buyer, then the buyer can face disappointment and wasted time. Arena/NC doesn't want everyone spending any more time with trade than they wish to, so let's call this "a bad thing". Now if we had a drag and drop interface for sale items, then the time for setup is very short. Have it look like the trade window now, and when I drop a purple staff with both upgrades and a minor power like % recharge then it's all noted right there, in purple text.

So as a seller, my process is to hit a town, call up a AH menu or use an NPC or storage icon(I prefer an anywhere option like an F key or from the Options menu), then I see a one-slot window (like trader NPCs do for dyes say) and you can drag one item (or stack of materials) onto the slot, which then reads the stats for it, then you are able to enter a price, then it's in (it knows your name). Repeat for any items you want to sell. As long as I am in the town (changing districts is fine), then my stuff stays up there. If I leave town, all items are removed from the AH immediately.

As a Buyer, I can call up the AH GUI and I see tabs for sorting, so I go to Weapons, then Swords, then Hilts, Pommels or Types (this is if you wanted a Brute Sword or Fiery Sword or Wingblade for the look). Now I see all the Hilts and can scroll around and look at them. I see two buttons in the menu, one says Cancel and the other says Buy. Cancelling drops me out of that auction, and back to the sorted list. I can see all upgrades and stats of items as I browse. Buy button locks me in and sends a whisper to the seller with something like "Duke Nukem has bought your Staff Wrapping of Defense +5 and is in District 5" (you could also add a button for "Contact Seller" and then could barter or ask if they sold Fibers as well as the listed linen, etc.) As a nice touch, it could add the buyer in the little chat dropdown where you add whom you wish to talk to.

Now recalling the point here, and that was a system without a holding bin that is still workable.

So, If they can do a system where the item is not dependent on the seller to hand the item to the buyer, then I like your system just fine, Galatea. I'm not a fan of Buy It Now or other Ebay options, but I'll take your system as written.

IF they cannot work out a system where the sale item is held independently of the seller, then we have delay issues and dissatisfaction. By making the interface quick and easy, then we can still have an AH using the current trade window with my idea. The limits built in to my thought can be beneficial since the seller can pick up and move to gameplay or another town (though if your AH idea is in then I like across all towns). The restriction of staying in a town means sellers are dissuaded from frivolous or hopeful sales, it removes all the chat and allows comparisons. I will steal your Auction Log as a button as well, that is a good thing! Auto-unlisting upon leaving town means never having to say you are sorry, or working at cleanup.

I really feel the trade system needs help, and I really like the AH concept. My thought is supplemental in case we cannot get a meta-trade holding bin and transfer function to get the item to the buyer.

Anyhow, hope this maybe stirs up new thoughts too.

-D

Galatea · Aug 04, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Oh, maybe I didn't clarify in my write-up, but items placed in the auction are removed from the seller's inventory and stored in the system's auction house. Upon 'winning' an item, the bidder automatically would receive the item, and the money would be deducted from the winning bidder and either placed a) at the Auction House for pick-up by the seller, b) sent to the player's storage vault, or c) some unsaid option.

The auction system I have planned out does not require player-to-player trading. However, it doesn't eliminate it, since it will most likely still be used for common items or crafting materials, collector items or customized items, etc.

stumpy · Aug 04, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

this auction house reflects the ffxi one to a T.

especially with adding in the last 5-10 purchase prices.

Nice work, well thought out, good descriptions ... now if you can get this information into the hands that feed us (Anet).

/signed ...

hell I'll sign it for my whole guild, I am sure they would appreciate a system like this

Deinonychus · Aug 04, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galatea

Oh, maybe I didn't clarify in my write-up, but items placed in the auction are removed from the seller's inventory and stored in the system's auction house. Upon 'winning' an item, the bidder automatically would receive the item, and the money would be deducted from the winning bidder and either placed a) at the Auction House for pick-up by the seller, b) sent to the player's storage vault, or c) some unsaid option.

The auction system I have planned out does not require player-to-player trading. However, it doesn't eliminate it, since it will most likely still be used for common items or crafting materials, collector items or customized items, etc.

I got that, that is why I voted for yours first. However, since my thought wasn't as planned out as yours, I put it forth as a programmable alternative so if they can't create a 'holding bin' forn the item, we can still have a better system. Wouldn't want the idea trashed because of coding issues is all.

eveler890 · Aug 04, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

/signed - i think it is a wonderful idea, with your system it takes away the ability of players to screw eachother over